There are suggestions that restoring the Quad II to original has sonic benefits. The Concordant mods raise the HT voltage which is, apparently not a good idea. Have a look here http://www.keith-snook.info/quad-ii-concordant.html. However if you are planning to buy NVA mono-blocks I wouldn't bother with doing anything with the Quads.Bill hart wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 1:56 pm Thanks everyone, very interesting and helpful. Excellent group.
I guess where I am coming from is, with a limited budget and a dac that can provide a level of control, am I better off spending money on power amps and a pre or power amps and upgraded cables? The consensus seems to be that you don’t need the pre.
Geoff.R.G, interesting what you say about output levels and sensitivity. My current system is using the RME dac into a Croft Micro pre amp with a pair of Quad II power amps which I had modified in the early 1990s by Doug Dunlop of Concordant fame. Sounds excellent but I have the RME output set to about 50% and the Croft volume set to around 33%.
Using Power Amps without a Pre Amp
-
- Posts: 1569
- Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:46 pm
- Location: Denham UK
- Has thanked: 133 times
- Been thanked: 483 times
Re: Using Power Amps without a Pre Amp
- savvypaul
- Posts: 8687
- Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:14 pm
- Location: Durham
- Has thanked: 1664 times
- Been thanked: 3005 times
- Contact:
Re: Using Power Amps without a Pre Amp
My P90sa is almost always set to around 11 o' clock (the volume that I usually listen at with vinyl sources), then with digital I use the fine adjustment (and remote control) of the RME DAC. I don't detect any change in sound quality when reducing the volume using the RME compared to setting the RME a +-0db and then adjusting with the preamp. That was not the case with the Squeezebox that I used to use, though, which sounded noticeably better when fixed to maximum...as so often, it depends on the quality of the implementation and what the designer is trying to achieve. Experiment and find your own answer.
- CN211276
- Posts: 6552
- Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:29 am
- Location: Cardiff
- Has thanked: 1424 times
- Been thanked: 988 times
Re: Using Power Amps without a Pre Amp
My P90 SA is usually set at 11 o'clock which is best for the tv. Being a metal fan I think turning it up to 12 would cause me a lot of grief if I did not live in a detached house.
Main System
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Lindy cat 6 US ethernet cable
Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ
Headphones
Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat
RIP Doc
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Lindy cat 6 US ethernet cable
Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ
Headphones
Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat
RIP Doc
-
- Posts: 8586
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:16 am
- Has thanked: 24 times
- Been thanked: 399 times
Re: Using Power Amps without a Pre Amp
You lot must not be using low Output moving coils , mine is set at 25 past.
-
- Posts: 1569
- Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:46 pm
- Location: Denham UK
- Has thanked: 133 times
- Been thanked: 483 times
Re: Using Power Amps without a Pre Amp
My inclination would be to set the volume on the pre-amp and then use the volume controls on other sources such that the overall volume remains unchanged between sources.savvypaul wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:40 pm My P90sa is almost always set to around 11 o' clock (the volume that I usually listen at with vinyl sources), then with digital I use the fine adjustment (and remote control) of the RME DAC. I don't detect any change in sound quality when reducing the volume using the RME compared to setting the RME a +-0db and then adjusting with the preamp. That was not the case with the Squeezebox that I used to use, though, which sounded noticeably better when fixed to maximum...as so often, it depends on the quality of the implementation and what the designer is trying to achieve. Experiment and find your own answer.
- Ithilstone
- Posts: 570
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:54 am
- Has thanked: 73 times
- Been thanked: 61 times
Re: Using Power Amps without a Pre Amp
Old blue SA had 24 stepsDaniel Quinn wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 7:20 pm You lot must not be using low Output moving coils , mine is set at 25 past.
new ones have 23.
Past 25 means you must have use something else... therefore it is hard to tell actual volume
Nothing to see here...
I am in the hi-fi trade
Status: Manufacturer
Company Name: NVA Hi-Fi
https://nvahifi.co.uk/
I am in the hi-fi trade
Status: Manufacturer
Company Name: NVA Hi-Fi
https://nvahifi.co.uk/
-
- Posts: 8586
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:16 am
- Has thanked: 24 times
- Been thanked: 399 times
Re: Using Power Amps without a Pre Amp
25 past is the time on the dial (roughly) I havnt counted the steps
- Fretless
- Posts: 9328
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:15 pm
- Location: Somewhere in Holland
- Has thanked: 1514 times
- Been thanked: 2308 times
Re: Using Power Amps without a Pre Amp
RD was always worried about directly driving NVA power-amps from a digital source. There is the possibility that a DAC (for example) will have its output reset to max at startup and damage both amps and speakers as soon as music starts playing.
The passive preamp inbetween also then acts as a safeguard, the volume being set to a level high enough for further control via the source component but low enough to protect poweramp and drivers.
The passive preamp inbetween also then acts as a safeguard, the volume being set to a level high enough for further control via the source component but low enough to protect poweramp and drivers.
Upstairs:
VinylPro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a {x2)
Little Bear MC2 + AQ NightHawk
Downstairs:
VinylLogic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 & PSU - BMUAiyima A07 MAX + Arcam One
HP: Allo DigiOne + Sabaj A10d + AQ NightOwl
Office: Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith 887 + German Maestro GMP 450
- savvypaul
- Posts: 8687
- Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:14 pm
- Location: Durham
- Has thanked: 1664 times
- Been thanked: 3005 times
- Contact:
Re: Using Power Amps without a Pre Amp
Low output MC (SPU)...high efficiency speakers.Daniel Quinn wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 7:20 pm You lot must not be using low Output moving coils , mine is set at 25 past.
-
- Posts: 1569
- Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:46 pm
- Location: Denham UK
- Has thanked: 133 times
- Been thanked: 483 times
Re: Using Power Amps without a Pre Amp
I know this may sound silly but, giving the volume control setting as a clock position is only valid if the pot, or stepped attenuator, has its datum at 6:00, meaning that zero is around 7:00 (potentiometers have a dead space between 5:00 and 7:00 with the datum at 6:00). I can't tell you where my volume control is set because my pre-amp displays the volume as a number (quiet at the back I like having a remote control). On my more usual audio devices the control positions are marked in db from -60 to +10.
I am assuming that DQ's 25 past (5:00?) is full volume.
I am assuming that DQ's 25 past (5:00?) is full volume.