Advice for forum newcomer and relatively new NVA fan with £1k to spend

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Pianist~Envy
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Advice for forum newcomer and relatively new NVA fan with £1k to spend

Unread post by Pianist~Envy »

This is my first post on the forum so please, don't be gentle. :pray:

10 years ago a friend lent me a small NVA amp - must have been an AP10 of sorts - when I realised my budget home cinema amp (...) couldn't power some rather small Celestion speakers... At that time I was short on cash and wasn't in a place to think about new audio equipment so over the years NVA and the amp disappeared from memory.

In the last few years I've upgraded a few components - mostly budget end - and as a lover of music (really only what some would call 'classical', mostly solo piano, mostly historic recordings...) I decided I need to start building a decent system and am now in a better place to do so. I should also note I am an ex-professional flute player and would consider my ears fairly decent instruments, if not atuned to hifi as you lifelong advocates, and certainly without the technical knowledge.

Recently, that same friend this time lent me his AP20 integrated (running it for 3 weeks now) along with some NVA speaker cables (unsure which ones). Not only is this kit a clear, marked and TBH devastating upgrade on my Cambridge Audio Azur 351A (I can hear you all laughing) but I have fallen in love with the sound. It is utterly beautiful, natural, how I always thought hifi should sound (or not, as it were), and reproduces the old wax cylinder and 78s CD transfers wonderfully.

After reading up on nvahifi and trawling through this forum, i realise I've stumbled across something quite special and now intend pursuing what I imagine will be a years-long journey of NVA purchases.

So, to the meat of my post. If you've made it this far down, some advice on the following info regarding my step into NVA would be gratefully received.

Budget: £1000 (approx.)
Kit I expect to keep (for now): ARCAM irDAC II, Mission SX1s on Atacama SE5 stands, basic Marantz CD player (5003), usual digital AV stuff (Sky, Playstation 3, Android box), optical cables
Kit I won't keep: Cambridge amp (seriously, stop laughing), cheapo copper speaker cables, cheapo interconnects inc. digital cable from CD
I run Spotify Premium through the PS3 for maximum SQ via optical/DAC, and have a large CD collection
Kit for the future (apart from the NVA amps I want to buy now): turntable/(phono stage) - I have a large unloved collection of records getting dusty, CD player, NVA upgrades as cash becomes available

New kit for now...
Firstly, I want to start somewhere I can build from - I'm aware of the hugely admirable, unique and generous business proposition Mr Richard Dunn delivers. But I want to start in the best possible place with future upgrades in mind from the start.

I have one last question/point which really affects where I begin this NVA journey: I run all my kit kit including the CD player through the DAC (the DAC does a better job than CD player direct, although I do expect to upgrade the CD player in 2018), and to my mind the two places to start are either:
1. Stick to an integrated - the AP 50 + best cables I can get with change from £1k, or;
2. I use the DAC as a passive pre (has variable-out/volume control), which then opens up the possibility of a stereo power amp (A60) or some monos (A40), + cables with change from £1k. The one thing I am wary of here is retaining the natural NVA sound and qualities and is my biggest concern going down this route.

Any thoughts and feedback very welcome. Also, where there are related posts in the forum that may go some way to answer these questions, please feel free to aggressively point me there :dance:

I'm so happy to have found NVA and also this forum.
"Simplicity is the final achievement. After one has played a vast quantity of notes and more notes, it is simplicity that emerges as the crowning reward of art." ~ Frederic Chopin

Amps/cables: NVA P50sa (48 step), A40 mk3, LS6, SSP
Digi/source: ARCAM CDS50
PaS: Troels Gravesen Scanspeak Discovery 3-Way Classic (homemade)

Music lover and piano dork.

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Re: Advice for forum newcomer and relatively new NVA fan with £1k to spend

Unread post by savvypaul »

A P20/A20 pre/power starter kit with cables (£300), Phono1 (£280), 2nd hand turntable - Rega, Project or, more adventurously, a vintage DD (£350ish).

That would give you the most music, right now...and still be upgrade-able.

OR

The starter kit with Cube 3s (£600). The Cubes are the best sensible money speakers that I have heard in the last 35 years, and they really allow the amps to operate at their very best (as you'd expect).

I think the starter kit and the phono are available through the loan scheme.

If you're anywhere near the North East feel free to pop over to mine to hear the Cubes...
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Re: Advice for forum newcomer and relatively new NVA fan with £1k to spend

Unread post by savvypaul »

PS. The NVA Reviews thread is worth looking through: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=46556
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Re: Advice for forum newcomer and relatively new NVA fan with £1k to spend

Unread post by Pianist~Envy »

Thanks for a quick and insightful reply savvypaul. I will take you ignoring the fact I want to keep my speakers as deliberate, I've read here about the Cube range and will definitely consider them - unfortunately I'm based in London so for now won't take you up on your extremely kind offer which I'll probably bother you about in the future!

The AP20 sounds great through the Mission SX1s. Okay the only benchmark I have is the basic Cambridge amp... but they sound broad and deep and with superb detail and clarity, a million times better with the NVA. Therefore for now I was hoping to keep them and perhaps punch a bit higher up the amp range - my thoughts were that upgrading from the AP20 I would get a bit more sound without loudness, and more of the same? The AP20 is lovely, but I do want to crank it up more which it does but I think begins to lose some focus due to the lower power - not that I necessarily want to run a club in my living room, I listen to classical mostly, after all!

I also notice you went starter kit allowing for amp upgrades, but again that bypasses the possibility of using the DAC as a pre. Does that mean you do not advise this?

I do assume that your response was considered of everything above. However this is what I imagined doing with my budget (turntable etc. in the future so doesn't need to be within the current budget):

- A60
- Best NVA cables I can get with the rest - speakers require 1.5m runs but will go 2m for a bit of flexibility, 50cm interconnects x2 sets, and a 50cm digital interconnect.

If you stick with your original post then I'll certainly seriously consider that route. Also, I've trawled the review thread and read most if not all of it...
"Simplicity is the final achievement. After one has played a vast quantity of notes and more notes, it is simplicity that emerges as the crowning reward of art." ~ Frederic Chopin

Amps/cables: NVA P50sa (48 step), A40 mk3, LS6, SSP
Digi/source: ARCAM CDS50
PaS: Troels Gravesen Scanspeak Discovery 3-Way Classic (homemade)

Music lover and piano dork.

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Re: Advice for forum newcomer and relatively new NVA fan with £1k to spend

Unread post by Andy-831 »

Welcome aboard PE.

Andy
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Tron Seven Linestage.
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Re: Advice for forum newcomer and relatively new NVA fan with £1k to spend

Unread post by Pianist~Envy »

Andy-831 wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:16 pm Welcome aboard PE.

Andy
Cheers Andy, feels like I've discovered the Holy Grail, good to be here!

Olly
"Simplicity is the final achievement. After one has played a vast quantity of notes and more notes, it is simplicity that emerges as the crowning reward of art." ~ Frederic Chopin

Amps/cables: NVA P50sa (48 step), A40 mk3, LS6, SSP
Digi/source: ARCAM CDS50
PaS: Troels Gravesen Scanspeak Discovery 3-Way Classic (homemade)

Music lover and piano dork.

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Re: Advice for forum newcomer and relatively new NVA fan with £1k to spend

Unread post by Daniel Quinn »

P50 stepped attenuater. A60 power amps plus speaker cable, the most expensive.
.
.you don't say how long you speaker cable will be and I presume it will be an ordinary room

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Re: Advice for forum newcomer and relatively new NVA fan with £1k to spend

Unread post by savvypaul »

Yes, I did, indeed, do the traditional thing of ignoring most of what you said in your OP :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't know the Arcam. Doc will be able to help re technical compatibility with the NVA power amps (there may be some relevant threads in the archive, too). I'd be surprised if it got near to the sound quality of the NVA pre amps, though.

Further up the amp range, in my experience, is greater headroom (more volume without loudness distortion) and separation without losing any of the natural presentation, just more music...which sounds like what you are asking for.

I started with P50sa & A60, which comfortably bettered my £1700 Sugden.

I heard the AP50 at Doc's place playing very nicely with Cube 3s.

Now that I'm actually paying attention to what you're writing re volume...I'd probably start with the AP50 and SSC / LS3 cables. That's going to bring you up to around the £1k.

If the extra headroom weren't necessary - I'd keep the starter kit, sell the Missions and buy the Cubes.

If getting the vinyl spinning is the bigger priority - starter kit, phono1, s/h tt.

Just ideas, I don't think you can go wrong here (given that you already like the 20 combo), whatever way you prefer to go, especially considering the 100% upgrade offer.
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Re: Advice for forum newcomer and relatively new NVA fan with £1k to spend

Unread post by Pianist~Envy »

Daniel Quinn wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:48 pm P50 stepped attenuater. A60 power amps plus speaker cable, the most expensive.
.
.you don't say how long you speaker cable will be and I presume it will be an ordinary room
Thanks for the suggestion Daniel, that's definitely maximising the budget and I guess I would add a bit more cash to as far up the cable range as posssible - from what I have read, I'm going to try to go straight for LS6 to save a future upgrade there. The budget goes up and up!

In answer to your other point: the room is approximately 14(hifi wall)/19 feet (4.2/5.8 metres), high ceiling with wood panel floor - large sofa is the only real damper - although ambient there's no echo. Listening spot is about central (slightly closer to hifi, 2/5 back). Speaker cables can be as short as 1.5 (can't split the speakers apart more than that would allow) and interconnects can be 50cm. In case that affects your suggestion.
Last edited by Pianist~Envy on Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Simplicity is the final achievement. After one has played a vast quantity of notes and more notes, it is simplicity that emerges as the crowning reward of art." ~ Frederic Chopin

Amps/cables: NVA P50sa (48 step), A40 mk3, LS6, SSP
Digi/source: ARCAM CDS50
PaS: Troels Gravesen Scanspeak Discovery 3-Way Classic (homemade)

Music lover and piano dork.

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Re: Advice for forum newcomer and relatively new NVA fan with £1k to spend

Unread post by Pianist~Envy »

savvypaul wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:56 pm Yes, I did, indeed, do the traditional thing of ignoring most of what you said in your OP :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't know the Arcam. Doc will be able to help re technical compatibility with the NVA power amps (there may be some relevant threads in the archive, too). I'd be surprised if it got near to the sound quality of the NVA pre amps, though.

Further up the amp range, in my experience, is greater headroom (more volume without loudness distortion) and separation without losing any of the natural presentation, just more music...which sounds like what you are asking for.

I started with P50sa & A60, which comfortably bettered my £1700 Sugden.

I heard the AP50 at Doc's place playing very nicely with Cube 3s.

Now that I'm actually paying attention to what you're writing re volume...I'd probably start with the AP50 and SSC / LS3 cables. That's going to bring you up to around the £1k.

If the extra headroom weren't necessary - I'd keep the starter kit, sell the Missions and buy the Cubes.

If getting the vinyl spinning is the bigger priority - starter kit, phono1, s/h tt.

Just ideas, I don't think you can go wrong here (given that you already like the 20 combo), whatever way you prefer to go, especially considering the 100% upgrade offer.
Thanks again this looks more like where I should go in the first instance. I've taken on board the Cube suggestion, my only gripe there is that I live in a flat with my neighbours bedroom above! I wonder if the sound thrown upward might restrict me to very low listening levels... I hate London. I love the concept of the Cubes though.

Regarding the AP50 + Cubes/RD's advice on DAC... Maybe I should contact him and see if I can visit Mecca for a chat and a listen? Perhaps I will end up selling the Missions. And my London flat... (which, sadly, I rent).
"Simplicity is the final achievement. After one has played a vast quantity of notes and more notes, it is simplicity that emerges as the crowning reward of art." ~ Frederic Chopin

Amps/cables: NVA P50sa (48 step), A40 mk3, LS6, SSP
Digi/source: ARCAM CDS50
PaS: Troels Gravesen Scanspeak Discovery 3-Way Classic (homemade)

Music lover and piano dork.

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