The cat would like to thank NVA...

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Now I am confused as I "think" Marco is confusing you. As far as I know the Croft pre reverses phase within the circuit (+ and - reversed) not by transposing left and right channels. To get correct phase on the output of an amplifier you must have an even number of gains stages as each gain stage reverses the phase of its input. The Croft pre has three gain stages so reverses phase at the speaker outputs with a NVA amp, to get it back into absolute phase (the correct expression) you reverse the speaker plugs on the channel not between the channels. Someone (marco) is either confused or talking out of his arse again pretending to know something.

EDIT - it also depends on the power amp used. NVA has four gain stages, so what goes in is what comes out in terms of absolute phase. Some power amps have three so rely on the pre amp to have three, in that situation the signal at the input to the pre amp is in the same absolute phase as the output of the power amp. Because then overall there are six gain stages, an even number, in this case if you reverse the phase at the speaker terminals you are turning the system out of phase.

I hope I am not confusing you even more. but this inf I am giving is correct

[Macca]

[

You've not heard my techie Martin, a bit of colour is what it needs. All the information is there but it's lacking a bit soul...

When I head Marco's at his place it was ruthlessly analytical - impressive but I recall thinking that I could see how some folk would not like that presentation, it is not what some/most people want/expect vinyl to sound like. That was with an Ortofon SPU fitted.

But at NEBO with the Denon MC cartridge it had lost that overly analytical trait and just sounded immensely good - as you know, since you were there So I would maybe look at your cartridge since AT are a bit 'analytical' in their presentation. When I got my SL1200 I used an Ortofon 540, just too sterile. Swapped to a Stanton 681EEE, better but still not there. I bought a used Nagaoka MP11 that came up on the classifieds and suddenly there was the 'soul'. So I upgraded to a Nag MP50 - job done!

With regards to the absolute phase thing - you just swap red for black on the speaker leads where they enter the power amp - you don't reverse the channels. This should make no difference to which volume pot controls which channel.

FWIW when I had my Croft I did not find out about the absolute phase reversal right away. When I did I swapped round but it was a noticeably worse sound. That was with a Linn LK100 power amp. Using a Linn LK1 pre (which also reverses absolute phase) the story was the same - better sound wired 'wrong'.

[brit-pop]

In direct comparison with a pukka 25 preamp, the Micro Basic does sound rather raw on all inputs. That's why there are superior models with ever-sophisticated power supplies and line stages as you go up the range.

Dave I'm quite surprised at your description of a raw sound, this one is anything but. Mind you the tubes had been replaced by the previous owner for 2 x SOVTEK 12AX7LPS valves and 1 x BRIMAR 6060 Yellow T and that may have made the difference. I've never heard one in stock form so don't have that point of comparison.

[brit-pop]

[

You've not heard my techie Martin, a bit of colour is what it needs. All the information is there but it's lacking a bit soul...

When I head Marco's at his place it was ruthlessly analytical - impressive but I recall thinking that I could see how some folk would not like that presentation, it is not what some/most people want/expect vinyl to sound like. That was with an Ortofon SPU fitted.

But at NEBO with the Denon MC cartridge it had lost that overly analytical trait and just sounded immensely good - as you know, since you were there So I would maybe look at your cartridge since AT are a bit 'analytical' in their presentation. When I got my SL1200 I used an Ortofon 540, just too sterile. Swapped to a Stanton 681EEE, better but still not there. I bought a used Nagaoka MP11 that came up on the classifieds and suddenly there was the 'soul'. So I upgraded to a Nag MP50 - job done!

With regards to the absolute phase thing - you just swap red for black on the speaker leads where they enter the power amp - you don't reverse the channels. This should make no difference to which volume pot controls which channel.

FWIW when I had my Croft I did not find out about the absolute phase reversal right away. When I did I swapped round but it was a noticeably worse sound. That was with a Linn LK100 power amp. Using a Linn LK1 pre (which also reverses absolute phase) the story was the same - better sound wired 'wrong'.

Thanks Martin, a denon MC is on my list of stuff to try for the future. I need to slow down the pace of change with this system a bit and spend some proper time evaluating what I've got. I've also ran out of money for the system and the car needs work

[_D_S_J_R_]

May I don my 'Hifi consultant' hat for a minute please? No? Well I'm going to let off anyway

My memories of the RS5's are of a rather fierce upper mid and treble projection. Not quite filling-remover inducing, but damned close. The RS3 in direct comparison is a far better mannered beast I remember (this using Croft 25/7 amps and a Rega based CD system). No wonder the AT440MLa is deemed too much as the speakers are just making an existing characteristic far worse.

Sorry, but cooling the vinyl down (or humanising it up!) isn't going to detract from what the speakers are doing. I'm not in the slightest suggesting you go the 'other speaker route' as I have, but I just need to say that the new Rega speakers coming out in the Summer will 'feature' cone doping - cough - and more rigid cabinets, with a price hike to go with the undeniably more expensive cabs.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Should I send them an invoice

[Daniel Quinn]

I think dave may have already tendered one

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

It is free knowledge as I have made it so and Rega are a clever company that keeps their nose to the wind. You will for certain know that I am being watched and have been for a long time. Roy Gandi is no innovator or product design lateral thinker, he is a clever and intelligent salesman and a cute follower of market trends and finder of market niches. Rega would be my least objectionable copyist, and he has a history of it.

I am happy with what I do BECAUSE I ENJOY IT ! I tried the bigger company bit with factory and staff but it is not me, also I am not equipped to be an employee, so I am happy being the cantankerous old git that I am, snipping at the idiots and crooks in this industry from my little den of sanity in a mad world, with my happy customers who just happen to have found me and have taken a chance.

Though any cheques in the post would be welcome (another holiday - yummy )

[southall-1998]

It is free knowledge as I have made it so and Rega are a clever company that keeps their nose to the wind. You will for certain know that I am being watched and have been for a long time. Roy Gandi is no innovator or product design lateral thinker, he is a clever salesman and a cute follower of market niches and trends. Rega would be my least objectionable copyist, and he has a history of it.

I am happy with what I do BECAUSE I ENJOY IT ! I tried the bigger company bit with factory and staff but it is not me, also I am not equipped to be an employee, so I am happy being the cantankerous old git that I am, snipping at the idiots and crooks in this industry from my little den of sanity in a mad world, with my happy customers that just happen to have found me and taken a chance.

Though any cheques in the post would be welcome (another holiday - yummy )

I'll post you £1.50, 1st class on Monday morning

S.

[walterwhite]

My memories of the RS5's are of a rather fierce upper mid and treble projection. Not quite filling-remover inducing, but damned close. The RS3 in direct comparison is a far better mannered beast I remember (this using Croft 25/7 amps and a Rega based CD system). No wonder the AT440MLa is deemed too much as the speakers are just making an existing characteristic far worse.

I'll second that. I heard the RS5's and 3's in separate demo rooms at my local Rega dealership, and the 5's weren't to my taste at all - very shouty to my ears, whereas the 3's were a very competant speaker, to the extent that I wouldn't mind having a second listen, preferably at home.