HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

I'll put it the NVA project up there and see what happens.

No reason why not to talk about it on AT, cant see why anyone would want to attack it. WRT _D_S_J_R_ , Steve, I do think you have assumed an adversary where there isn’t one, all he was suggesting was having a reference, it didn’t even have to be one you like, it could still be a reference. I know my hearing varies from day to day, so if you are adjusting the tweeter level, having a fixed reference will let you see if the change sounds better/worst because of the change in the speaker or the change in you (or some other part of your system that day).

Dave has *a way* with words that often portray something I am not sure he wants to. It is a bit school maam-ish and superior sounding. Now he follows it up at the end of posts with apologies about it and excuses as he has obviously seen his posts can create problems. Forums members - we are all different, sometimes you have to read behind the words and look for attitude, Dave can come across as pompous, but in real life he is quite unsure of himself, a classic example of writing and being can be very different - old fashioned school trained writing skill, both Dave and I are old enough to have had them inflicted on us.

_D_S_J_R_ wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:25 am Steve, I think you've rather misrepresented me in your post above and it has nothing to do with your amp project either, so why bring it up here.

I admire people who make their own speakers was worried that you're constantly playing with tweeter integration and levels and I was trying to suggest a cheapie well known speaker to use as some kind of reference 'grounding point' to help with your endeavours, that's all.

Maybe you didn't mean to be patronising, but that's how it came across on the page.
I'll accept that you didn't mean it how it looked, but again look, above, we have the "constantly playing with"....expression.
To me the expression "playing with" has child like implications, which are further reinforced by the quantifier "constantly" before it.
The child assumption is the bit that appears patronising, as the subtle implication is that the DIY'er is not a proper designer and those creations by the white coated engineers are what the DIY'er should be measuring their progress against.

Empirical testing is the most important process in any design exercise and as I said in the thread over on AT is part of the whole "voicing" of a project.

Empirical testing can and often does take months to get at the final sound of a piece of gear and is certainly not "playing with". I take exception to that term as it is damned hard work and needs to be respected as such.

A first order crossover is THE most difficult thing to voice up properly as it has such shallow filter slopes, so integration with the bass/mid is not easy and often means mechanical compensatin has to be added to one or both of the drivers, look at what Richard does to his drivers. But get it homed in and you have virtually nothing in the way of the music. It's well worth the trouble you have to go to.
A complex crossover with steep slopes makes the job ten times easier, but it can result in half the music being thrown away in the process if you are not on top of what you are doing.

I'm not going to go into it any further, as by now I really am sick to the back teeth of explaining my design rationale it over and over again. I've already done it a million times on AT so I'm not about to justify myself again.

Sorry if I've upset you Dave and I apologise for it. I can't say much more.

Lurcher300b wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:51 am No reason why not to talk about it on AT, cant see why anyone would want to attack it. WRT _D_S_J_R_ , Steve, I do think you have assumed an adversary where there isn’t one, all he was suggesting was having a reference, it didn’t even have to be one you like, it could still be a reference. I know my hearing varies from day to day, so if you are adjusting the tweeter level, having a fixed reference will let you see if the change sounds better/worst because of the change in the speaker or the change in you (or some other part of your system that day).

Nick, my reference is in my head. Unconventional and illogical I know, but it is the only way I can do it.

I find A/B' ing things very difficult and can't articulate to myself what is going on. You may not have noticed before, but whenever I am in a group situation and we are comparing and contrasting I don't say an awful lot. I know what I "think" but find a great deal of difficulty in expressing those thoughts verbally in hi-fi terms. I wonder later on why this always happens.

I can accept that Dave might have thought he was was helping and any "normal" hi-fi enthusiast would have concluded that was the case and accepted that the intention was honourable, but I found it annoying and frustrating. That's my fault not anyone else's. It's just me.

Just be yourself and enjoy it Steve.

I'm not going to go into it any further, as by now I really am sick to the back teeth of explaining my design rationale it over and over again. I've already done it a million times on AT so I'm not about to justify myself again

I can sympathise with that so do what i do, don't describe why you are doing it just say what you are doing and leave it at that. If you say why you are doing something it (in my mind) says that you are prepared to justify that position. So just don't say that and the problem will go away. The people who agree with you will continue to agree and those that don't don't matter.

Lurcher300b wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:29 pm

I'm not going to go into it any further, as by now I really am sick to the back teeth of explaining my design rationale it over and over again. I've already done it a million times on AT so I'm not about to justify myself again

I can sympathise with that so do what i do, don't describe why you are doing it just say what you are doing and leave it at that. If you say why you are doing something it (in my mind) says that you are prepared to justify that position. So just don't say that and the problem will go away. The people who agree with you will continue to agree and those that don't don't matter.

Why didn't I think of this sooner?
It'll make life a damned sight easier. Let's see how it goes from here.

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:27 pm Just be yourself and enjoy it Steve.

Good advice there Richard. Cheers.

The project is now up on AT.