CDP anologue stage

A place for DIY project discussions.
Forum rules
1. No ad-hominem
2. No spamming or shilling
User avatar
karatestu
Posts: 1240
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:40 pm
Location: North Yorkshire
Great Britain

CDP anologue stage

Unread post by karatestu » Fri May 26, 2017 8:12 pm

My cdp has 6 opamps in the anologue stage. Currently there are two transformer windings feeding two regulators. They are not split left and right channels but the last opamp in each channel shares a regulator and the other four opamps share the other regulator. Current draw is around 8 mA per opamp.

Does anyone here think that each opamp would benefit from its own psu (transformer, rectifier, smoothers and regulator). Experiments elsewhere in my system have shown that this type of thing is well worth the effort but i have never done this with a cdp anologue stage. It is a lot of expense, time and real estate taken up for it to be worth it.

Any views ?
Naim, Linn & Harbeth fanboy

User avatar
TheMadMick
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:50 am
Location: SOUTHPORT, UK
St Patrick's Saltire

Re: CDP anologue stage

Unread post by TheMadMick » Fri May 26, 2017 9:49 pm

Stu
Why don't you buy yourself some more music? It must be better value than mucking about with the electronics?

Of course, if you do get an improvement, you've a whole new music collection!!

There is no right answer.
NuVista 3D, kW550, MA PL200, BMU, Atlas Mavros, Townshend Rock, Merlin, OL RB300 and Kontrapunkt A

User avatar
Fretless
Posts: 3564
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:15 pm
Location: Somewhere in Holland
Netherlands

Re: CDP anologue stage

Unread post by Fretless » Fri May 26, 2017 10:28 pm

I would suggest firstly making sure that the D/A conversion stage is fitted with a dedicated power supply - IMHO that would make a more noticeable improvement than for the analogue output stage. Better still, go for an outboard DAC.

Digital conversion always benefits from better PSU's. :guiness;
NVA: P50sa - SSP - A40 - LS6 - Cube3
Digits: RPi 2B/Allo DigiOne/Volumio/Tomanek ULPS/AQ Jitterbug
CD Transport: Cambridge CXC DAC: Metrum Acoustics Musette
Headphones: AQ Nighthawk Carbon H/P Amp: Schiit Magni 3

Simon Hickie
Posts: 500
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:47 pm
Location: East Staffordshire
Great Britain

Re: CDP anologue stage

Unread post by Simon Hickie » Fri May 26, 2017 11:38 pm

Or rather than streaming (as I understand streaming anyway), a laptop with CDs ripped as WAV files, JRiver MediaCentre, Fidelizer (free version) computer optimisation and a good starter DAC is IMHO better still. I run my music off a 13 year old IBM Thinkpad with a mere 2.5gb of ram. I put a 1tb hard disk in and have a second off-board one for backup.
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” George Bernard Shaw.

User avatar
CN211276
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:29 am
Location: Cardiff
Wales

Re: CDP anologue stage

Unread post by CN211276 » Sat May 27, 2017 7:48 am

TerryMadher wrote:I suggest you are seriously wasting your time and probably considerable expense. Throw that old coloured sounding CDP away and invest in a good streaming system. Look at Tidal through roon. Ok, set up and continued use is an expense you're not used to but believe me, once you are there, you'll not need to buy another album again. Fantastic transparent uncoloured sound will be with you forever. Set up will cost you a fraction of what you propose
And will give you something much better.

Far too much Audio foo still hanging around forums etc. I find it difficult to comprehend the ignorance on this by so many. Since I started quality streaming, I've not looked back and certainly have not bought in any music by any solid media whatever.

Your Naim player may well be fun but regardless of PSU upgrades whatever, your're on the silk purse/sows ear road. Go streaming and get it right. That is.......it really does sound completely right.
Could not agree more.
I set a course just east of Lyra
And northwest of Pegasus
Flew into the light of Deneb
Sailed across the Milky Way

NVA BMU, Sonore microRendu/McRU PS, AQ J-bug, Wirewold Ultraviolet, Chord Qutest, NVA P50SA, NVA A80sMk2, NVA Cube 3s, NVA TSCS, NVA TIS mk2. Rega Planar 3, Denon DL-110, NVA Phono 1, NVA SSP Mk2, Grado SR 325e, headphones, Chord Mojo.

Second system
Arcam Miniblink Bluetooth DAC, Marantz pm 5004, Wharfdale Diamond 121, NVA LS2.

Out and about
Oppo PM3, Audioquest Dragonfly Red.

User avatar
karatestu
Posts: 1240
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:40 pm
Location: North Yorkshire
Great Britain

Re: CDP anologue stage

Unread post by karatestu » Sat May 27, 2017 8:18 am

Thanks for the response.

Concerning the Dac - i have already given each of the chips power supply pins (3) their own isolated psu and fancy regulator.
The new clock i put in also got its own dedicated psu - wow, an awesome improvement.
The anologue stage has responded very well to improving regulators on the opamps. The opamps themselves are now OPA627. I have two spare transports for the future.



I have never considered streaming and probably wont unless there is no other option. It just does not appeal to me in any way and i am no dinosaur - i'm only in my early 40's.

I play around with my electronics because i enjoy it and it is a hobby that is closely related to enjoying music itself. It is quite
addictive actually. Learning about electronics and building my own stuff means i can take things to the extreme and over engineer things just to see what happens. It is the only way to learn. Also i could now repair a lot of stuff if it ever goes wrong - no need to take to repair shop.

The Doc is a fan of multiple psu's. Just look at the statement products. Power amplifier has 4 psu per channel. Powering the 6 opamps in my cdp independently is the last thing i have to try and the final chapter of learning. I already have the regulators, re tifiers and caps to do it, just need 6 transformers. I was thinking about buying 6 small EI pcb transformers - 10VA, very small footprint and less than £15 each. A bit fiddly to cut the pcb traces and wire in the supplies and 0V connections but i have done similar before.

Yes, there is no hope for me
Naim, Linn & Harbeth fanboy

User avatar
Fretless
Posts: 3564
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:15 pm
Location: Somewhere in Holland
Netherlands

Re: CDP anologue stage

Unread post by Fretless » Sat May 27, 2017 7:06 pm

Stu, I think you would love to play around with a Pi and, for instance, the Durio DAC board which has several options for externally powering the different stages. Or the Allo boards like the Piano DAC and Kali Reclocker.

You might also find that ripping CD's to a harddisk using something like EAC will get more music data off a disc than any single-pass CD player. :grin:
NVA: P50sa - SSP - A40 - LS6 - Cube3
Digits: RPi 2B/Allo DigiOne/Volumio/Tomanek ULPS/AQ Jitterbug
CD Transport: Cambridge CXC DAC: Metrum Acoustics Musette
Headphones: AQ Nighthawk Carbon H/P Amp: Schiit Magni 3

User avatar
Macca
Posts: 1551
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:30 pm

Re: CDP anologue stage

Unread post by Macca » Sun May 28, 2017 7:41 am

TerryMadher wrote:I. Until I started streaming, I was oblivious to the colouration CDP's introduce. :
Not disputing that some CD players are coloured but I was wondering why you think that colouration is inherent to CD players and not to a streaming system?

User avatar
karatestu
Posts: 1240
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:40 pm
Location: North Yorkshire
Great Britain

Re: CDP anologue stage

Unread post by karatestu » Sun May 28, 2017 8:41 am

I really appreciate everybody's input here. You are slowly persuading me to give streaming a go. But not until my cdp, amps and doc mod speakers are finished.

I guess being a subjectivist i wont know until i give it a go.
Naim, Linn & Harbeth fanboy

User avatar
CN211276
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:29 am
Location: Cardiff
Wales

Re: CDP anologue stage

Unread post by CN211276 » Sun May 28, 2017 9:52 am

To my ears hi-fi tidal streams and CDs ripped to Flac are on a par and superior to CD players. I think this is due to less getting in the way of the signal path, such as the transport mechanism.
I set a course just east of Lyra
And northwest of Pegasus
Flew into the light of Deneb
Sailed across the Milky Way

NVA BMU, Sonore microRendu/McRU PS, AQ J-bug, Wirewold Ultraviolet, Chord Qutest, NVA P50SA, NVA A80sMk2, NVA Cube 3s, NVA TSCS, NVA TIS mk2. Rega Planar 3, Denon DL-110, NVA Phono 1, NVA SSP Mk2, Grado SR 325e, headphones, Chord Mojo.

Second system
Arcam Miniblink Bluetooth DAC, Marantz pm 5004, Wharfdale Diamond 121, NVA LS2.

Out and about
Oppo PM3, Audioquest Dragonfly Red.

Post Reply