Creek

Post any interesting items from ebay here...
Forum rules
1. No ad-hominem
2. No spamming or shilling
_D_S_J_R_
Posts: 4185
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:53 am
Location: The end of the road in Suffolk Coastal.
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 6 times
Wales

Re: Creek

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

Seeing as I worked for one of the top three UK Linn/Naim dealers for many years, I suppose I never saw the 'other side..' It was only when the major dealer purge happened in the early 90's that we saw some of this. B&O had also issued dealer database contracts shortly before and what surprised me was how 'we' were happy to deal with B&O, but then Linn wanted buyers' names and addresses, the warranty forms becoming vital for the extended guarantees offered I remember.

Horrible times, but I do have some fond memories despite this...
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way...The time has gone, The song is over, Thought I'd something more to say...

User avatar
Dr Bunsen Honeydew
Posts: 30758
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:26 pm
Location: Muppet Labs
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Creek

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

I wrote this about 5 years ago when I was a member at AoS in reply to Ashley James.

****************************************************************************************************************************

Nope, wrong yet again. Read the thread through. What you say used to happen and it happened because if anything threatened the status quo it was sat upon and killed. For the mafia the lesson was learned in the 1980's too many small companies with great products were appearing, I could list them but there are too many. Well come the early 90's recession the mafia was so established they just dictated the selling terms to the retailers. "You support us and only sell our products and we will give you extra profit" retailer contracts, strictly illegal and against all the free market laws that came in at the end of retail price maintenance. Setting retail prices, killing competition. The retailers loved it, slurp slurp. The small companies got conned, "yes I will sell your products, give me one to dem" rarely switched on, only used to sell *off*, if demed then cold and used in incompatible cabling electrical supply etc, anything to make it sound worse so he can sell what he *has to* to reach his yearly dictated turn over figures with Linn, Naim, Mission, Meridian, Kef, B & W etc, who could have been part of this ;).

Well most of the small guys went bust apart from the ones that jumped on the burgeoning Far Eastern export market, and then that was largely killed by the Far Eastern currency crisis in 1997. British hi-fi industry gems killed by bullshit marketing and illegal selling contracts. Look for them now on ebay they make good money, people are finding them again. It is changing, now-a-days they can't hurt us, we rise or fall on merit, if the very freedom we have acquired is allowed us by the forum trough snufflers.

In the early 90's there was a trade magazine called Inside Hi-Fi run by Stan Curtis's wife. It wanted letters and rep of the state of the industry, so I tried a couple of times. I have lost the first one but this was the follow up after most of the industry had been killed apart from the exporters.

This was 1992 or 3

Write Inside

Dear Angela,

Seeing it is not only you but some of your more prominent!! readers asking for more letters in your mag, I thought I would make another attempt at the bubbly. I would like to follow up on the theme of my letter of last year. That letter enticed two 'phone calls, one from Ivor Tiefenbrun explaining at great length!!! his dealer contracts. After I managed to get a word in edgeways I was told if I won't listen there is no point in trying to educate me. And one from Russ Andrews agreeing with everything I said. What this says of the industry or its view of me I will leave open for your interpretation. Apathy rules OK.

What very few people seem to understand is that the so-called cottage side of our industry is to a large extent thriving and a large number of small to medium size companies are exporting like mad. The fact that the restrictive trading practices and pure mismanagement of the retail side of the British Hi-Fi industry has nearly ruined the industry here has forced these companies to do this and in the process they have become an unrecognised British exporting success story. The following is a breakdown of my last years turnover according to country. Please do not consider our position to be unique it probably applies to 80% of UK Hi-Fi companies.

China/Hong Kong 24%
Singapore 5% Taiwan 21%
UK 4% France 12%
Greece 3% Russia 7%
Italy 2% Indonesia 7%
Holland 2% Malaysia 6%
Norway 2%

The remaining 3% split amongst another 7 countries.

When your home market takes only 4% of your turnover you can guess where my priorities lie, though this does give me the freedom to call a spade a spade as I perceive it.

There seems to have been a decision made by a number of leading manufacturers and retailers dating back to the post boom days of the late 1980's that if they were going to have to put up with a receding market place the thing to do was to get a greater share of that smaller market. Hence the poor customer walks into a major retailer these days to be faced with a choice of 4-6 manufactures and these are boringly the same manufactures shop to shop, apart from the valve propeller heads and thank God for them, they are the only spark of originality in the shops today. Well, I would like to say surely it is time for a change, as the recession is no longer with us shouldn't we try to pursue excellence again instead of short term expedience. The whole industry will benefit and the major manufacturers will have to improve their products instead of relying on lack of competition, which must be for the good. In my opinion the like of Bill Hutchinson and Julian Richer in their own very different ways are addressing this and if more independents sat back and took a good look at their businesses and break out of their complacency and looked at who is controlling them, perhaps they will join the battle of expanding the market instead of griping and complaining and acting as new age Luddites.

Richard Dunn
NVA

Andrew
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Creek

Unread post by Andrew »

The thing I find very difficult to stomach with Linn is the way they take a stand one moment then completely change their position when it suits them. The worst thing is the dealers who "parrot" their proclamations and just act like the past never happened.

Classic examples have been the introduction of the Axis, the launch of their first CD player and DC motors.

Of course they said they'd never make a "son of Sondek" because they never built down to a cost and why would anyone want an inferior Sondek. The Axis appears and it's not inferior, just a different approach.

Vinyl trounces CD according to Linn, then the karik/Numerik is launched and suddenly we are told it doesn't matter whether it's digital or analogue. It's all music. I was told this by a flagship Linn Dealer North of the border less than 6 months after the same person had scoffed at all CD players, saying the Axis would beat any CD player. Obviously he didn't remember the conversation as well as I did.

Then there's all the bluster about AC motors being the best and all the criticism of PT for using DC motors. Now DC is best, but presumably that's only because Linn alone have the expertise to exploit it.

There's no harm in recognising you were wrong and changing tack. Far from it. Nobody can be right all the time and an ability to listen, learn and adapt is to be admired. However, there is plenty wrong IMO when any change of approach is accompanied by a complete denial of your past position and beliefs. It's an insult to the intelligence of the people who trusted you with their custom and for me it would make me think long and hard about trusting today's products because there's every chance I'd wake up tomorrow to find the sands have shifted again and erased the past with them.

User avatar
Macca
Posts: 1551
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:30 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Creek

Unread post by Macca »

I had a 4040 for a while. I'd rate it behind the 3020 and the A60, but not by much. A bit thick sounding, more so than the NAD.
Last edited by Macca on Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Dr Bunsen Honeydew
Posts: 30758
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:26 pm
Location: Muppet Labs
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Creek

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

For me the astonishing things was to live and trade through this period with the frustration of me seeing everything that was going on and everyone else seemingly blind to it or wandering around in a brainwashed daze. All the people like DSJR now coming out of the woodwork and saying yes it was bad and we see it now and yet at the time I was treated as a nutter and insulted in the shops these people worked in. It was Emperors new clothes in spades. I used to frequent dem room to be told what to listen for and why my amps will never be as good as Naim / Linn depending on which shop after the civil war. Using a Trio LO7d one of the finest and best made turntables on this planet at a show and have people walk out of the room sneering "he is using a direct drive, don't bother" or "he is not using a Linn, so there is no point in listening". There were times I seriously wanted to beat a few heads together, but apart from telling the truth and virtually having the whole industry against me what could I do.

User avatar
Dr Bunsen Honeydew
Posts: 30758
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:26 pm
Location: Muppet Labs
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Creek

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Macca wrote:I had a 4040 for a while. I'd rate it behind the 3020 and the A60, but not by much. A bit thick sounding, more so than the NAD.
Well for me an AP30 or even an AP20 pissed on the lot of them, and in reality it really did. It is still basically the same amp now so compare it with them now and have one big shock. BUT yet again I was a nutter, an industry pariah, and they would be sitting and listening to it and denying it, brainwashed glazed eyes and all, while I sat trying to smile but inside shaking my head in bewilderment. Perhaps people see why I am now on such a crusade to tell people what happened and set this industry back to right again.

jammy395
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Creek

Unread post by jammy395 »

Dark Days indeed, Glad they are behind us. :snooty:

"he is not using a Linn, so there is no point in listening". (Doc)
Alas people with this mind set still abound.

Daniel Quinn
Posts: 8586
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:16 am
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 399 times

Re: Creek

Unread post by Daniel Quinn »

Thankfully having purchased a pink triangle in 1987 , I give up hifi for 20 years and all this passed me by in a haze of hedonism .

P.s- Note for Colin -Dear Colin , please either get a spokesperson [ your acolyte on chews maybe ? ] or remain silent , alas you are not intellectually equipped to argue with the written word . I of course cant even make a shit amplifier let alone one with an enviable reputation , horses for courses !

Only the doc can do both :lol:
Last edited by Daniel Quinn on Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Dr Bunsen Honeydew
Posts: 30758
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:26 pm
Location: Muppet Labs
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Creek

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

He claims he is dyslexic.

1. Dyslexics of the world, untie!
2. If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic!
3. Ten out of two people have numerical dyslexia.
4. Have you heard about the dyslexic devil worshipper? He sold his soul to Santa!
5. Have you heard about the dyslexic robber who ran into a bank? He screamed: "Air in the hands mother stickers this is a f*ck up!"
6. Have you heard about the dyslexic prostitute? Apparently she cooks sock.
7. Have you heard about the dyslexic guy who walked into a bra?
8. Have you heard about the guy who discovered that he's both dyslexic and gay? He's still in daniel!
9. Old MacDonald was dyslexic... E I O I E.
10. Have you heard about the dyslexic pirate? He had a carrot on his shoulder!
11. What does DNA stand for? The National Dyslexics Association.
12. I was a kid, I had dyslexia. I would write about it in my 'dairy'. (Zach Galifianakis)
13. Have you heard about a guy who used to have dyslexia? He now has dailysex instead!
14. A guy goes up to a woman in a bar and says, "I am both alphabetically and numerically dyslexic. Have you ever tried to '96'?"
15. Have you heard about the two dyslexic guys riding in a car? One turned to the other and said, "Can you smell petrol?" The other replied, "Don't be a moron, I can't even smell my own name!"
16. Have you heard about the dyslexic atheist? He said that he didn't believe in dog!
17. Have you heard about the dyslexic boy who asked his mother for a McDonald's? She said: "You can have one if you can spell it." The boy replied: "Sod it, I'll have a KFC!
18. Have you heard about the dyslexic with Tourette syndrome? He goes around shouting, "This! This! This!"
19. Have you heard about the newly wed dyslexic couple who were killed tragically on their honeymoon? They broke their necks trying to do a 96!
20. Did you know Santa Claus is dyslexic? He always laughs, "Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!"

All of course in the best possible taste :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

jammy395
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Creek

Unread post by jammy395 »

9. Old MacDonald was dyslexic... E I O I E.

Class.... :laughing-rolling:

Post Reply