Scottish Mafia get together last weekend...

[jammy395]

You Know somthing Clive - I havent got the foggie'est But i know a man who will..............

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

The VA is largely dictated by the transformers, which is why an AG1500 weighs about twice an AG500. Different stages 1/ lower voltage = transformer 2/ convert to DC 3/ convert to AC 4/ Increase voltage = transformer.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Today, 16:48

Gazjam
Senior Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Motherwell Glasgow
Posts: 2,288

I'm Gary.

For my 2KVA Transformer (on Ali's advice) I went for a additional protection: MCB on the input and a 16a RCBO on the output.
MCBO here:
http://www.airlinktransformers.com/p...e/57-MCB1.html

And the same RCBO from this transformer.
http://www.airlinktransformers.com/s...-BPS3110S.html

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Now this is what I don't understand - you spend loads of money to decrease the source impedance of your mains and then spend more money to increase it again.

[Gazjam]

Have to say, when a mate brought his over it was a night and day improvement in my system...better than 3am sound early in the afternoon.
This was with the same MCB and RCBO protection I have in mine.

Don't see why it wouldn't sound better without the secondary protection, but what I heard was plenty "good enough" for me.
Be interesting to hear Jason's comparisons though between them if he has two systems set up.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

I am addressing a point not an individual, and the point still stands. It has the same logic to me as spending loads on your loudspeaker then hanging a wet flannel over the tweeter. In this case though you can't remove the wet flannel to see if it sounds better. I am all for safety, which is why I tell everyone to install radial circuits as all rings are inherently dangerous. Now the chance of a fault condition occurring in your ring is far more likely than this spurious scenario that is creating all this paranoia about the balancing transformers. I presume you are plugging all this into a ring - doesn't that bother you?

[Gazjam]

ello..

Fair point Richard RE: the technicalities/potential sound benefit of installing a radial circuit for the hifi.
Unfortunately (for me) I cant do that in my property and a balanced mains is my "next best thing, despite understanding and agreeing with the benefits of what you are saying.

If I could...I would.

So; Safety has to be a thing I guess, I'm no electrical engineer, (I'm Mechanical) but I know a guy who is, so taking his advice with this.
He is a hifi nut too, so that's a bonus.

Having done some research for myself though, In an Ideal world I'd do what you are suggesting. No argument here.
But I cant so hey ho. We pick our compromises I guess.

[Gazjam]

OK, so back to balanced mains / mains regen.
I've STILL not installed the balanced mains hardwired unit in my system yet (Been looking into "best cable"/hardwired vs mains block yada yada) but thanks to a mate I've had a chance to install a "Plug n play" balanced transformer in my system and compared various mains cables etc.

BALANCED TRANSFORMER FINDINGS

I lOOKED AT TWO THINGS:
Amp (Better straight into wall or into BPS?)
Dac (BPS effect on a source component, not the amp)

MY CONCLUSIONS:

1. CABLE FROM WALL SOCKET TO BPS CAN MAKE A NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE.
Compared Supra LoRad 2.5/?Wattgate/Silver Toughplug, and B&Q cheapie cable and Lapp/Silver TOughplug/MK IEC.

Best cable from wall to BPS? Lapp - Not a lot in it, but Lapp made music sound more "alive" and involving.
Supra was a bit reserved in comparison, hiding some of the finer detail and air from the recording.

2. AFTER THE BPS - DO CABLES MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

Compared the Lapp with the Supra plugged into my Amp after the BPS.
Lapp better, not as noticable but you do miss something.

Surprised cables made a difference after the BPS, but there you go!

3. Amp - plug into wall or BP?
At first, I thought my amp sounded a little better direct into the wall, though through the BPS the bass was cleaner.
After another listen to the amp plugged into the BPS I wasn't sure.

So rather than doing the A/B hifi comparison thing, I played the same track and went about doing other things with it in the background.
Plugged into the BPS had better boogie to it, no loss of dynamics and bass was clearer.
Sitting down and doing a quick comparison again it was more obvious that the BPS improved the amp compared to plugging it into the wall.

I'M SURPRISED BIGGER BALANCED MAINS IMPROVEMENT WITH SOURCE COMPONENTS THAN AN AMP

A bigger improvement was plugging my Young Dac into the balanced mains, more improvement than with the amp.
The Dac was previously hooked up to a Belkin PF30 which improved it compared to straight into the wall, but plugged into the BPS it was a different animal all together.
Clearer, more impact, music flowed better and just sounded even more "right".

Not exactly the big "Balanced Mains Vs. Mains Regeneration" but a fantastic wee comparison, know where I am now with improving my mains.
Just need to hook up my own BPS now, a bit more work than just plugging cables in as it was with the balanced mains unit I tried with IEC and 13A inputs!"

Have variables like choice of mains cable/best way to install the thing sorted now, so fitting it this coming week. When its in place for a few days my mate is bringing his AG500 over for a direct comparison.

Will post up how it all goes, hopefully helpful for some folk.


Gaz.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Did you use the cable I sent.

[Gazjam]

Yup.
That's going in the final install between Bps and 60a junction block.
Didn't want to broadcast.

Stuck an MK Safety plug and a Martin Kaiser iec on the end of it and compared with what I had.
Just to get a feel for its value in the scheme of things.
Better than all but one of the mains cables Im using just now.
Taking the plug from that and fitting it to the 6mm x2 cable I using between the wall and the TX.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

I think this whole mains thing is starting to get confusing for everyone.

really three things

1. anything that removes noise from the mains is a good thing, problem has been that when you remove the noise you remove some of the musical aspects as well, mostly dynamic due to the fact they are filters and filters increase your source impedance. Now balanced mains comes along as the only thing that removes noise and leaves music intact, I don't think it effects or may even lower source impedance.

2. anything that lowers source impedance in your mains is a good thing, the regenerators do that. increased dynamics and information levels. My only problem with regenerators is who sells them (per usual). You have the choice of direct sold computer industry product like the Power Inspired range for up to £450 or rip-off hi-fi product sold through the hi-fi crook trail for up to £6000 Common sense for anyone who has any should apply here.

3. good cabling and plugs is common sense but not as important as the last two IMO. Good quality industrial cable is fine, good design plugs like Schuko or BS546 15amp without fuses on a radial spur. Or even better hard wire. Stupidly price 13amp and IEC plugs made of weird metals, and bizarre cables are just that *stupid* and are a marketing tool for the likes of MCRU to rip you off.

All these are independent and don't *have* to be done together, they all have individual benefits.

These are my opinions, but the debate will roll on. I am just concerned that people will blindly follow the bullshit route and I wish the like of MartinT would stop supporting it and investigate the lower priced options so we can get some definitive results, as at the moment all I see obfuscation and marketing apart from the Scottish Mafia investigation, yet all of you are going to the mains plug promotion party :?